| I think that that is our opinion too, that there |
1 | 76 |
| are losses that adhere to the lenders. The |
2 | 76 |
| question is whether or not the lenders' appetite |
3 | 76 |
| for not wanting to foreclose gets conveyed to the |
4 | 76 |
| servicers and whether or not the servicers are |
5 | 76 |
| using all available options to the borrower. |
6 | 76 |
| GOVERNOR OLSON: But I think that |
7 | 76 |
| that's not -- on behalf of those of us who have |
8 | 76 |
| been in the lending business -- I think that's not |
9 | 76 |
| fully appreciated. And I think in most states, |
10 | 76 |
| this is the case. There is significant consumer |
11 | 76 |
| protection, that the portfolio lender who |
12 | 76 |
| forecloses is going to lose money in that process. |
13 | 76 |
| So there is a strong incentive not to go through |
14 | 76 |
| that process. It seems to me that there ought to |
15 | 76 |
| be a conversion of interest, not only the |
16 | 76 |
| underwriting, but also the avoidance of |
17 | 76 |
| foreclosure, and there historically has been. |
18 | 76 |
| MR. GOLDSTEIN: I don't disagree with |
19 | 76 |
| that, at all. However, when you look at the |
20 | 76 |
| lenders who are the most active in the foreclosure |
21 | 76 |
| listings, not those that are foreclosing, but the |
22 | 76 |
| lenders who made the loans, that are subject to |
23 | 76 |
| the foreclosure, those are not, in the main, |
24 | 76 |
| portfolio lenders. |
1 | 77 |
| MR. DUNCAN: One technical point I'll |
2 | 77 |
| note, we classify states according to their |
3 | 77 |
| foreclosure laws by the state's judicial process, |
4 | 77 |
| which is typically more lengthy than those which |
5 | 77 |
| have a non traditional process, and it's a |
6 | 77 |
| consistent message that you want to talk to your |
7 | 77 |
| lender, as opposed to going with one of these |
8 | 77 |
| other folks. |
9 | 77 |
| MR. COLLINS: I think Governor Olson |
10 | 77 |
| talked a little bit about state foreclosures have |
11 | 77 |
| a more efficient and fair mortgage marketplace, |
12 | 77 |
| and I think Janice, you were saying, that a |
13 | 77 |
| perfectly educated borrower can't regulate the |
14 | 77 |
| market. There have been some changes in the laws, |
15 | 77 |
| for instance, one that allows consumers to get a |
16 | 77 |
| free copy of their credit report, to help shop for |
17 | 77 |
| credit. Maybe Ira or Janice, can you tell us |
18 | 77 |
| whether or not that's made any difference in |
19 | 77 |
| people's ability to shop, or are they taking |
20 | 77 |
| advantage of the credit report? |
21 | 77 |
| MS. BOWDLER: I am going to jump out |
22 | 77 |
| there and say I don't know if we know that yet, |
23 | 77 |
| because the free credit reports have only been |
24 | 77 |
| available for not very long, a year in some places |
1 | 78 |
| and less in others, because of the time release of |
2 | 78 |
| that. So I don't really know yet. I know that |
3 | 78 |
| through our counseling networks, all the clients |
4 | 78 |
| that come in are entitled to a credit report. |
5 | 78 |
| It's standard practice to pull their credit |
6 | 78 |
| reports and go through it with them. And our |
7 | 78 |
| experience has been that a family still needs help |
8 | 78 |
| going through that credit report. So, even once |
9 | 78 |
| they get it, if everything's fine, and they have a |
10 | 78 |
| great credit report, there's not much of a |
11 | 78 |
| problem. But if they have credit problems or if |
12 | 78 |
| they have errors, or identity theft, or any other |
13 | 78 |
| issues, then they need to seek out other help and |
14 | 78 |
| the counselors help them with that. |
15 | 78 |
| And this is especially true for |
16 | 78 |
| language minorities. And the system for -- if you |
17 | 78 |
| speak Spanish or if you prefer Spanish, I should |
18 | 78 |
| say, there are 800 numbers that are not fantastic, |
19 | 78 |
| but they're there. If you speak some other |
20 | 78 |
| language, you may or may not be able to get some |
21 | 78 |
| help. So I think I've heard a lot from Asian |
22 | 78 |
| immigrant communities that there's been problems |
23 | 78 |
| with accessing credit reports there. |
24 | 78 |
| So, I don't think that that's been |
1 | 79 |
| fully beared out yet. I wouldn't expect that just |
2 | 79 |
| having your free credit report is going to help |
3 | 79 |
| you shop for your mortgage. Hopefully, it will |
4 | 79 |
| lead to a better understanding of what your credit |
5 | 79 |
| score is and how to work within that context. But |
6 | 79 |
| I think that's still a step or two steps away from |
7 | 79 |
| shopping for your mortgages. |
8 | 79 |
| MR. DUNCAN: We just completed a |
9 | 79 |
| survey, which we released earlier this week, of |
10 | 79 |
| 1200 households, which we did not classify by |
11 | 79 |
| racial or ethnic group, but we classified by |
12 | 79 |
| renter versus borrower, and we asked exactly that, |
13 | 79 |
| have you accessed your credit report. We were |
14 | 79 |
| quite surprised; 75 percent of both owners and |
15 | 79 |
| renters had accessed their credit report. We |
16 | 79 |
| asked them, how do you feel about your capability |
17 | 79 |
| of managing your credit? And owners were a little |
18 | 79 |
| higher than renters, but not much. They felt like |
19 | 79 |
| they were doing a good job with this. We also |
20 | 79 |
| asked them, did you find errors in your credit |
21 | 79 |
| report? And about 50 percent of those polled |
22 | 79 |
| found errors. And of those who had found errors, |
23 | 79 |
| did you correct them? A higher percentage of |
24 | 79 |
| owners got them corrected than renters. |
1 | 80 |
| Our objective was to look at who's |
2 | 80 |
| going to become an owner and what are their credit |
3 | 80 |
| characteristics as they approach the process. And |
4 | 80 |
| 45 percent of those renters said that in the next |
5 | 80 |
| two years they want to buy a house. And that's, |
6 | 80 |
| kind of, what we were getting at to get to this |
7 | 80 |
| question. |
8 | 80 |
| GOVERNOR OLSON: Were the errors |
9 | 80 |
| misidentification or were they credits that had |
10 | 80 |
| been paid, but not recorded as paid? |
11 | 80 |
| MR. DUNCAN: We didn't get that |
12 | 80 |
| information. |
13 | 80 |
| MS. BRAUNSTEIN: In terms of -- getting |
14 | 80 |
| back, again, a little bit, to the shopping thing, |
15 | 80 |
| do you find, Janice, or others that may know the |
16 | 80 |
| answer to this, that people are more likely to try |
17 | 80 |
| to pre qualify -- if they know they're going to go |
18 | 80 |
| buy a house, do they go out first and look at |
19 | 80 |
| where they could potentially get a mortgage, how |
20 | 80 |
| much of a mortgage they could handle before they |
21 | 80 |
| go look for a house, or is it more, they go out |
22 | 80 |
| and look for a house and then, very quickly, try |
23 | 80 |
| to run around and get a loan in order to buy the |
24 | 80 |
| house that they identified before somebody else |
1 | 81 |
| buys it out from under them. Is there, you know, |
2 | 81 |
| a way that is better which may seem like the first |
3 | 81 |
| way to do that? |
4 | 81 |
| MS. BOWDLER: Again, all of my answers |
5 | 81 |
| are anecdotal and come from feedback that we get |
6 | 81 |
| from the counselors. The first thing is, I think |
7 | 81 |
| that tends to differ by market. In hot real |
8 | 81 |
| estate markets, like northern Virginia for |
9 | 81 |
| example, families are very aware of the fact that |
10 | 81 |
| they're competing for houses and that they need to |
11 | 81 |
| do something, even if they aren't exactly sure |
12 | 81 |
| what that is, to secure that house of their dreams |
13 | 81 |
| that they want. In slower markets, I don't think |
14 | 81 |
| that's necessarily the case. |
15 | 81 |
| I do think it introduces something we |
16 | 81 |
| haven't talked about yet, which is real estate |
17 | 81 |
| agents, that are also very relationship-based, and |
18 | 81 |
| now can do a pre-qualification for you. And so, |
19 | 81 |
| if you're relying on a real estate agent, which I |
20 | 81 |
| think a lot of people do, and that's true in the |
21 | 81 |
| Latino community as well, then they can do a |
22 | 81 |
| pre-qual there and give you an idea of what you |
23 | 81 |
| can afford. |
24 | 81 |
| Now, what I've heard from some places |
1 | 82 |
| is that a real estate agent will give you, not a |
2 | 82 |
| range, but the largest amount you could |
3 | 82 |
| possibility qualify for. So it's going to be on |
4 | 82 |
| the high end. And I've heard issues that once it |
5 | 82 |
| gets down to it, you can't quite afford that much, |
6 | 82 |
| and you might lose a house. There's issues there. |
7 | 82 |
| But I do think that people are getting access to |
8 | 82 |
| pre-qualification but they do it through realtors. |
9 | 82 |
| MR. CHANIN: Let me follow-up on this |
10 | 82 |
| notion of shopping. Do you see any difference in |
11 | 82 |
| consumer behavior, in terms of shopping for |
12 | 82 |
| purchase money transactions versus refinancings, |
13 | 82 |
| either in terms of things that work better for |
14 | 82 |
| those people, or if those people shop more or |
15 | 82 |
| less, either of those groups. |
16 | 82 |
| MS. BOWDLER: People who get refinances |
17 | 82 |
| are overwhelmingly more likely to receive |
18 | 82 |
| solicitations, and be approached, either by real |
19 | 82 |
| estate agents, by brokers, through the mail, on |
20 | 82 |
| the phone, and be solicited for these refinances. |
21 | 82 |
| And we did some survey data where we looked at why |
22 | 82 |
| people were refinancing. |
23 | 82 |
| It's interesting, because the Latino |
24 | 82 |
| community refinances less than other communities. |
1 | 83 |
| And from our perspective, that could be good and |
2 | 83 |
| that could be bad. It could mean that they are |
3 | 83 |
| staying put because it's not for them, or it could |
4 | 83 |
| mean that if they were seared on the front end, |
5 | 83 |
| that they're not taking advantage of money saving |
6 | 83 |
| opportunities by refinancing. |
7 | 83 |
| Those that refinanced were |
8 | 83 |
| overwhelmingly likely to respond to solicitations |
9 | 83 |
| to do so, and they were more likely to be cash out |
10 | 83 |
| refinanced than just rate re-fis. There is |
11 | 83 |
| solicitation in the purchase, but if you're a |
12 | 83 |
| renter, you're out there with that idea that I |
13 | 83 |
| want to be a homeowner, and I think it's more |
14 | 83 |
| common that you're solicited by a re-fi. |
15 | 83 |
| MR. CHANIN: In that re-fi scenario, |
16 | 83 |
| the push market so to speak, do you find that |
17 | 83 |
| people, typically, respond to those offers, or do |
18 | 83 |
| they make a decision and then go out and |
19 | 83 |
| affirmatively shop other lenders or other sources |
20 | 83 |
| or channels? |
21 | 83 |
| MS. BOWDLER: I don't think that |
22 | 83 |
| there's any more shopping in the re-fi level than |
23 | 83 |
| there is for purchases. |
24 | 83 |
| GOVERNOR OLSON: It's my perception |
1 | 84 |
| that the panel is losing some steam here. We |
2 | 84 |
| started early and we're ending early, presumably, |
3 | 84 |
| but I want to make sure, are there any other |
4 | 84 |
| comments that any of the four of you would like to |
5 | 84 |
| add as our panelists, and then I can ask my Fed |
6 | 84 |
| colleagues if there are any remaining questions. |
7 | 84 |
| MR. DUNCAN: I had one thing I wanted |
8 | 84 |
| to follow-up on that Ira made, which was a very |
9 | 84 |
| important point talking about the cluster |
10 | 84 |
| foreclosures, and the industry is thinking about |
11 | 84 |
| that because there is the expectation of a lot of |
12 | 84 |
| growth in reverse mortgages. For many of the |
13 | 84 |
| households in those neighborhoods, that's the bulk |
14 | 84 |
| of their equity. To the extent that those cluster |
15 | 84 |
| foreclosures weaken the ability of the market to |
16 | 84 |
| assess true value of that equity, it's going to |
17 | 84 |
| cut into the ability of those households to access |
18 | 84 |
| it in the reverse mortgage structure or some other |
19 | 84 |
| structure. So I didn't want us to lose sight of |
20 | 84 |
| that significant point. |
21 | 84 |
| MS. BOWDLER: I'd like to make a final |
22 | 84 |
| comment as well. A lot of my remarks, and some of |
23 | 84 |
| the questions, focused on profit motivations that |
24 | 84 |
| gear consumers to certain loans, and the question |
1 | 85 |
| of suitability, and also the role of mortgage |
2 | 85 |
| brokers, and I just wanted to be clear that we |
3 | 85 |
| understand that that's the nature of the market |
4 | 85 |
| and that those profit motivations are the things |
5 | 85 |
| that provide the mortgages to the families, and |
6 | 85 |
| that's an important role, and that the markets |
7 | 85 |
| intermediary is an important role. So we wouldn't |
8 | 85 |
| want to do anything that damages the industry for |
9 | 85 |
| being able to do what it is does, but that we need |
10 | 85 |
| something to offset and counteract those forces to |
11 | 85 |
| make sure that the consumers are adequately |
12 | 85 |
| represented as well. |
13 | 85 |
| GOVERNOR OLSON: It's a very good |
14 | 85 |
| point. Anybody else? We'll take a half hour |
15 | 85 |
| break and we'll get started at 10:45 with our next |
16 | 85 |
| panel. |
17 | 85 |
| (Whereupon, there was a 30-minute break |
18 | 85 |
| in the proceedings at 10:15 a.m.) |
19 | 85 |
| (Whereupon, the proceedings resumed at |
20 | 85 |
| 10:45 a.m.) |
21 | 85 |
| GOVERNOR OLSON: Just as a reminder, |
22 | 85 |
| one of the important parts of the program are for |
23 | 85 |
| people who are not on the panels but would like to |
24 | 85 |
| make a statement. At 3 o'clock, we have an open |
1 | 86 |
| mike time for people that would like to make a |
2 | 86 |
| statement. If you would like to do so, there is a |
3 | 86 |
| sign-up sheet outside, and please indicate your |
4 | 86 |
| interest or your willingness so that we can give |
5 | 86 |
| you opportunity to speak. |
6 | 86 |
| We now have our panel in place for the |
7 | 86 |
| second panel. Let me remind everybody of our |
8 | 86 |
| ground rules. You will give a five-minute opening |
9 | 86 |
| presentation. You will see -- you will be spared |
10 | 86 |
| the ignominy of having the buzzer that we had in |
11 | 86 |
| Chicago. We have a sign that says one minute and |
12 | 86 |
| your time's up, but we have found, also, that that |
13 | 86 |
| allows for a significant opportunity, then, for |
14 | 86 |
| further discussion as a result of making that time |
15 | 86 |
| available. |
16 | 86 |
| I'd like each of you to identify |
17 | 86 |
| yourself, your group, and then make your opening |
18 | 86 |
| presentation, and we will go in the same order, |
19 | 86 |
| counterclockwise, starting with David Berenbaum. |
20 | 86 |
| MR. BERENBAUM: Good morning everyone. |
21 | 86 |
| I'm not going to spend a lot of time introducing |
22 | 86 |
| the National Community Reinvestment Coalition. I |
23 | 86 |
| think most of the folks in the room, it's a |
24 | 86 |
| collegial group, I think we've met each other on |
1 | 87 |
| many occasions, are familiar with the work that |
2 | 87 |
| NCRC does. I serve as the organization's |
3 | 87 |
| executive vice president, in particular, the areas |
4 | 87 |
| of policy, are direct service initiatives, and are |
5 | 87 |
| civil rights advocacy. |
6 | 87 |
| I'm going to spend my five minutes, |
7 | 87 |
| today, diving immediately into some work that |
8 | 87 |
| we've been doing, both through our Consumer Rescue |
9 | 87 |
| Fund Initiative, as well as through a mystery |
10 | 87 |
| shopping program that we've just completed in |
11 | 87 |
| partnership with the United States Department of |
12 | 87 |
| Housing and Urban Development. The information |
13 | 87 |
| that I'm about to share with you is included in |
14 | 87 |
| the remarks, which I believe are on the table |
15 | 87 |
| outside, and will also be on the Internet later |
16 | 87 |
| today. |
17 | 87 |
| NCRC is extremely troubled by how the |
18 | 87 |
| mortgage marketplace is not acting rationally with |
19 | 87 |
| regard to the wholesale marketplace and the role |
20 | 87 |
| of mortgage brokers. Let me qualify that by |
21 | 87 |
| saying to you that I believe that a majority of |
22 | 87 |
| mortgage professionals, although they work in the |
23 | 87 |
| financial service industry or the appraisal |
24 | 87 |
| industry, areas of focus today, are professionals |
1 | 88 |
| in acting responsibly. But that said, in the |
2 | 88 |
| recent year that we've taken a look at our |
3 | 88 |
| dataset, under our consumer rescue funding |
4 | 88 |
| program, a very successful remedial loan program |
5 | 88 |
| for victims of predatory lending or consumers in |
6 | 88 |
| hardship, 90 percent of the cases we have looked |
7 | 88 |
| at where fraud or where there is problematic |
8 | 88 |
| lending, involved a problematic broker, a broker |
9 | 88 |
| who was perpetuating the fraud. |
10 | 88 |
| That reality prompted us to place a |
11 | 88 |
| grant into the United States Department of Housing |
12 | 88 |
| and Urban Development, because we are tired of |
13 | 88 |
| hearing, it's not us, it's them. They originated |
14 | 88 |
| the loan. It's at wholesale marketplace, and in |
15 | 88 |
| fact, 70 percent of the marketplace loans are |
16 | 88 |
| being originated by mortgage brokers. They are |
17 | 88 |
| not being regulated appropriately, and that means |
18 | 88 |
| we have a problem in the system. |
19 | 88 |
| Quickly, with regard to our testing |
20 | 88 |
| results, we sent qualified African-American |
21 | 88 |
| mystery shoppers or testers and slightly less |
22 | 88 |
| qualified white counterparts into mortgage brokers |
23 | 88 |
| across the nation in six studies that are |
24 | 88 |
| identified in my statement. We control for |
1 | 89 |
| income. We have them control for credit as far as |
2 | 89 |
| describing their own situation. This is all |
3 | 89 |
| reapplication testing. |
4 | 89 |
| Here are some of the initial findings. |
5 | 89 |
| With regard to fees, 74 percent of the white or |
6 | 89 |
| control testers, were given very detailed |
7 | 89 |
| information about fees associated with the loan |
8 | 89 |
| programs that they were being offered. Only 30 |
9 | 89 |
| percent of the African-American testers were being |
10 | 89 |
| given information about fees. |
11 | 89 |
| With regard to product choice, |
12 | 89 |
| African-Americans were given rate quotes or rate |
13 | 89 |
| product descriptions approximately for 1.3 |
14 | 89 |
| products. These are averages over the 100 tests |
15 | 89 |
| that we conducted in the six areas. White testers |
16 | 89 |
| were given approximately 2.6 quotes, in other |
17 | 89 |
| words, close to 3 loans per site visit. |
18 | 89 |
| With regard to fixed-rate loans, 90 |
19 | 89 |
| percent of the white testers had fixed-rate loans |
20 | 89 |
| discussed with them, while only 56 percent of |
21 | 89 |
| African-American testers had fixed-rate loans |
22 | 89 |
| discussed with them as well. Similarly, with |
23 | 89 |
| regard to adjustable rate mortgages, 37 percent of |
24 | 89 |
| white testers had those types of products |
1 | 90 |
| discussed with them, and only 13 percent of black |
2 | 90 |
| testers. |
3 | 90 |
| Terms and conditions varied greatly |
4 | 90 |
| between African-American and white testers. On |
5 | 90 |
| advise of counsel today, because we are filing |
6 | 90 |
| three complaints, the first being filed today, I |
7 | 90 |
| am not disclosing the information with regard to |
8 | 90 |
| pricing and terms, but there were significant |
9 | 90 |
| differences. 16 percent of the testers, white |
10 | 90 |
| testers, were referred to banks for loans. Only 8 |
11 | 90 |
| percent of our testers who were African-American, |
12 | 90 |
| were referred to banks. |
13 | 90 |
| And last, with regard to -- two points |
14 | 90 |
| -- with regard to referral up, which came up on |
15 | 90 |
| the first panel, we found that 7 percent of our |
16 | 90 |
| white testers were told that they should apply |
17 | 90 |
| elsewhere or were referred up to a private product |
18 | 90 |
| by a mortgage broker. None of our |
19 | 90 |
| African-American testers, 0 percent, were referred |
20 | 90 |
| up in any of our 100 tests. 40 percent of the |
21 | 90 |
| African-American applicants for mortgages were |
22 | 90 |
| questioned about their credit history or if |
23 | 90 |
| they've ever had a foreclosure or bankruptcy. |
24 | 90 |
| Only 9 percent of our white testers were asked the |
1 | 91 |
| same question. |
2 | 91 |
| With regard to professional service, on |
3 | 91 |
| average, white testers spent 39 minutes with |
4 | 91 |
| brokers, and black testers spent 27 minutes with |
5 | 91 |
| brokers. I'll leave more discussion about this |
6 | 91 |
| testing to our colloquy, but I'd also like to |
7 | 91 |
| point out that predatory or problematic appraisal |
8 | 91 |
| is a major issue in the marketplace. |
9 | 91 |
| And to follow-up on the remarks that |
10 | 91 |
| the National Council of La Raza made about member |
11 | 91 |
| groups and partners, what we are finding is that |
12 | 91 |
| realtors, appraisers, and the entire financial |
13 | 91 |
| service marketplace, is changing as a result of |
14 | 91 |
| financial marketization. As a result of that, |
15 | 91 |
| there is needed change to ensure active |
16 | 91 |
| enforcement of existing law, as well as to take a |
17 | 91 |
| fresh look at HOEPA. |
18 | 91 |
| GOVERNOR OLSON: Thank you very much. |
19 | 91 |
| These are critical subjects, because what you're |
20 | 91 |
| describing is discriminatory and disparate |
21 | 91 |
| treatment, which are violations of the law. We |
22 | 91 |
| want to make sure that we give you a full |
23 | 91 |
| opportunity to address those. |
24 | 91 |
| Irv Ackelsberg. |
1 | 92 |
| MR. ACKELSBERG: That's my name, Irv |
2 | 92 |
| Ackelsberg. I want to welcome you to |
3 | 92 |
| Philadelphia, the cradle of liberty and ground |
4 | 92 |
| zero in the fight against abuse of subprime |
5 | 92 |
| mortgage lenders. |
6 | 92 |
| What I have to tell you is largely |
7 | 92 |
| anecdotal. I'm not a researcher, but this |
8 | 92 |
| anecdotal knowledge comes from my experience in |
9 | 92 |
| taking, what I believe to be the largest creditor |
10 | 92 |
| lending practice in the country, eight legal |
11 | 92 |
| services attorneys focusing primarily on defending |
12 | 92 |
| individual homeowners in foreclosure. I've |
13 | 92 |
| personally reviewed hundreds of loan files, |
14 | 92 |
| deposed numerous brokers, loan officers, |
15 | 92 |
| underwriters. I studied the practices of the |
16 | 92 |
| companies who once dominated the market and those |
17 | 92 |
| that are dominating now. In my few minutes, I'd |
18 | 92 |
| like to tell you about the typical and routine |
19 | 92 |
| abuses in the market today post HOEPA. |
20 | 92 |
| The subprime market today, at least as |
21 | 92 |
| it applies to low-income homeowners, remains |
22 | 92 |
| fundamentally broken as a result of the |
23 | 92 |
| institutionalization of a new generation of abuses |
24 | 92 |
| that are not addressed by HOEPA. The current |
1 | 93 |
| abuses are engineered, in large part, by mortgage |
2 | 93 |
| brokers, who, for the most part, have no |
3 | 93 |
| incentives to produce good loans and, instead, |
4 | 93 |
| contrary to the interest of borrowers and their |
5 | 93 |
| communities, are mass producing unnecessarily |
6 | 93 |
| risky loans. |
7 | 93 |
| But by pointing the finger at the |
8 | 93 |
| broker, I want to be clear that I do not believe |
9 | 93 |
| primary blame lies there. Brokers are, in my |
10 | 93 |
| mind, little more than sales agents for the |
11 | 93 |
| lenders who have been to Wall Street, designed the |
12 | 93 |
| mortgages they want to make, and depend on this |
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| army of supposedly independent sales people to |
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| sell their product. |
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| I brought with me two illustrations to |
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| show you from today's market leaders, Wells Fargo |
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| and New Century. The first loan that I've given |
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| you is an illustration of a loan that came into |
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| our office very recently. It's a loan that was |
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| made by Wells Fargo with a broker in March of this |
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| year, two months ago. The facts are, this is a |
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| very low-income homeowner. She only has $620 a |
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| month in Social Security. She has a house that, |
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| based on the comps I was able to get out of the |
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| computer, are between -- the value of her house is |
2 | 94 |
| between 15 and $25,000. In March of this year, |
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| she agreed to $17,000 in home improvements by a |
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| suspicious dealer who told her he would arrange |
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| the financing. |
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| This is the loan that she got that |
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| you're looking at. A $32,900 loan made possible, |
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| I assume, by a fraudulent appraisal arranged by a |
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| broker she never met, who was brought in by the |
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| contractor. The difference between the amount of |
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| credit she wanted and what she got includes |
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| payoffs and special subsidized obligations from |
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| state and local agencies that she had no interest |
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| in paying off, and thousands of dollars in |
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| settlement charges, including a fee to the broker |
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| she never met. She had absolutely no ability to |
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| pay this loan. The starting monthly payment of |
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| $286, which does not include an escrow for |
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| insurance and taxes, by itself, leaves her only |
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| $334 to pay her utilities, her food, her |
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| transportation and any other monthly expense. |
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| And, if we look further, this was an adjustable |
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| rate mortgage. It has a two-year rate of 9.8 |
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| percent and then it jumps up to 7 points over line |
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| bar, as high as 15.875 percent. So the inability |
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| to pay will worsen. Of no regarding Wells Fargo |
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| decision to make this loan -- if you look you'll |
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| see the application, it increased her $620 income |
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| to $779, but even in so doing, they acknowledge -- |
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| the sixth page of the documents I'm showing you, a |
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| document called Conditions of Loan Approval, they |
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| acknowledge that she did not have the residual |
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| income to pay the loan. |
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| Now, this lack of general underwriting |
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| that you're seeing in this example, is not |
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| unusual, it's not in every single one, but |
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| constantly, we're seeing loans like this, and made |
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| by not bad apples but by market leaders. |
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| I also gave you a summary of New |
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| Century securitizations in the first quarter of |
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| 2006. Looking at it, the 1.4 billion dollars of |
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| mortgage loans in that pool, of which only 10 |
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| percent are the 30-year fixed-rate loans that I |
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| dare say most consumers believe they're applying |
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| for, 45 percent of these mostly adjustable loans |
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| are no docs; 45 percent. What Ira Goldstein |
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| didn't mention this morning, is, that in the |
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| research we have in Pennsylvania, 20 to 40 percent |
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| of the subprime loans made in 1998 or '99 were in |
2 | 96 |
| foreclosure by 2003. So how much more of a crisis |
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| are we, in Philadelphia, facing years from now, |
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| when all these adjustable, no doc, no escrow, no |
5 | 96 |
| underwriting loans, start going bad. |
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| We can't depend on the market to bring |
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| down foreclosure rates and create incentives for |
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| real underwriting, at least not over a reasonable |
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| time frame. Too much will be lost. We need the |
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| help of the Fed. Thank you. |
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| GOVERNOR OLSON: Thank you, Irv. And |
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| thank you for concluding right as the time |
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| expired. David Bleicken, same drill, introduce |
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| yourself, the group you represent and you have |
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| five minutes. |
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| MR. BLEICKEN: My name is David |
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| Bleicken. I'm from the Pennsylvania Department of |
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| Banking and it's a real pleasure for me to be here |
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| and talk with you. |
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| I have a longer statement that I will |
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| be glad to offer for the record, so I'll focus my |
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| remarks on two areas of concern to the Department |
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| of Banking. The first deals with underwriting. |
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| The factors that lead homeowners to |
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| foreclosures are complicated. Some are sad, but |
2 | 97 |
| unavoidable, illness, job loss. Some are |
3 | 97 |
| criminal, forging documents, inflating appraisals, |
4 | 97 |
| deceiving advertisements, but some, which leads me |
5 | 97 |
| to my next point, are subtle. Otherwise |
6 | 97 |
| acceptable mortgages are being sold to families |
7 | 97 |
| who simply can't afford them. This is |
8 | 97 |
| irresponsible in lending. |
9 | 97 |
| Irresponsible lending is this: Making |
10 | 97 |
| a mortgage with no real effort to discern if the |
11 | 97 |
| borrower can repay the loan. I'm not talking |
12 | 97 |
| about whatever the first year monthly payment is, |
13 | 97 |
| I'm talking about making a reasonable effort based |
14 | 97 |
| on all of the terms over the life of the loan. It |
15 | 97 |
| seems like a simple concept, but one that's |
16 | 97 |
| increasingly absent in the structure of today's |
17 | 97 |
| marketplace. Too often, today, the salesperson |
18 | 97 |
| has little or no stake in the long-term success of |
19 | 97 |
| the loan. |
20 | 97 |
| When local bankers made loans 30 years |
21 | 97 |
| ago, there were natural consequences to their |
22 | 97 |
| underwriting. Even if they didn't expect |
23 | 97 |
| borrowers to be long-term customers of their |
24 | 97 |
| institutions, the basic soundness of their |
1 | 98 |
| portfolios was on the line. Today, someone can |
2 | 98 |
| make the sale, get a commission and never interact |
3 | 98 |
| with the borrower or loan again. Chances are, |
4 | 98 |
| that even the original lender won't hold the |
5 | 98 |
| mortgage for too long. They'll be included in the |
6 | 98 |
| pool and sold on a secondary market. Whoever ends |
7 | 98 |
| up pulling the defaulted paper is so far down the |
8 | 98 |
| line that they are all too frequently removed in |
9 | 98 |
| the consequences of the transaction. |
10 | 98 |
| The other thing I'd like to focus on |
11 | 98 |
| today is what the states are doing. The |
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| Pennsylvania Department of Banking, we've licensed |
13 | 98 |
| just over 4,000 mortgage brokers, regulating them |
14 | 98 |
| under two laws passed by the general assembly. As |
15 | 98 |
| you may know, across the nation all but two states |
16 | 98 |
| regulate the mortgage industry. It has been |
17 | 98 |
| leadership provided by the states, after all, that |
18 | 98 |
| has resulted in landmark settlements. More |
19 | 98 |
| routinely, however, states have minimum financial |
20 | 98 |
| audit standards, conduct background checks, |
21 | 98 |
| require testing, order refunds, mandate continuing |
22 | 98 |
| education, and a host of other compliance |
23 | 98 |
| requirements. |
24 | 98 |
| In Pennsylvania, over the past three |
1 | 99 |
| years, we've seen explosive growth in the mortgage |
2 | 99 |
| industry. The Banking Department has restructured |
3 | 99 |
| itself within the powers already given to it, |
4 | 99 |
| reached out to the general assembly, and worked |
5 | 99 |
| with other state regulators as part of a national |
6 | 99 |
| effort. Part of our structuring includes doubling |
7 | 99 |
| the size of our consumers services staff, doubling |
8 | 99 |
| the number of our examiners that look at non |
9 | 99 |
| prospering institutions, like mortgage brokers, |
10 | 99 |
| creating an investigation unit, and enhancing the |
11 | 99 |
| scrutiny that we apply to our existing statutes to |
12 | 99 |
| people who apply to us for a license. In working |
13 | 99 |
| with both consumer advocates and industry leaders |
14 | 99 |
| to work on a new set of policy statements and |
15 | 99 |
| regulations to govern the proper conduct in the |
16 | 99 |
| business in Pennsylvania, and to define what is |
17 | 99 |
| illegal, unfair, and unethical. |
18 | 99 |
| We already started to see results from |
19 | 99 |
| our efforts. Last year, we levied $110,000 in |
20 | 99 |
| fines against mortgage brokers; this year, as of |
21 | 99 |
| the end of May, we have already eclipsed that |
22 | 99 |
| number. We also, currently, have 71 brokers under |
23 | 99 |
| investigation. These statistics are simply |
24 | 99 |
| products of our new presence in the marketplace. |
1 | 100 |
| Of particular concern, however, are |
2 | 100 |
| provisions focused on licensure. We are working |
3 | 100 |
| with the legislature on a legislative package that |
4 | 100 |
| would include, in part, the licensing of |
5 | 100 |
| individual loan officers. Part of that would |
6 | 100 |
| require pre-licensing testing and a battery of |
7 | 100 |
| background checks. To that end, though, we also |
8 | 100 |
| are working with the Conference of State Banking |
9 | 100 |
| Supervisors in the American Association of |
10 | 100 |
| Residential Mortgage Rates on a national licensing |
11 | 100 |
| database. You may have seen in the news yesterday |
12 | 100 |
| that the CSBS just signed with the National |
13 | 100 |
| Association of Security Dealers to host and create |
14 | 100 |
| this Web site. It should be up and running by |
15 | 100 |
| January 2008. We are remarkably excited about |
16 | 100 |
| this. It will enhance our ability to follow |
17 | 100 |
| people over state lines and to share information |
18 | 100 |
| with other states. |
19 | 100 |
| I do want to emphasize that we do not |
20 | 100 |
| believe that all mortgage brokers are bad. We |
21 | 100 |
| believe that the majority of them are honorable |
22 | 100 |
| people trying to make a decent living in the |
23 | 100 |
| world. But even one is too many. We are working |
24 | 100 |