Public Meeting Regarding NationsBank and BankAmerica - Panel 5
Thursday, July 9, 1998
Transcript of Panel Five
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1 MR. MARKS: Hi. My name is Bruce Marks. I'm
2 the Executive Director of the Neighborhood Assistance
3 Corporation of America. We are a nonprofit housing
4 services, housing advocacy organization.
5 I am going to keep my remarks short and then
6 have a few other people talk. One thing with the Fed,
7 let's be clear, ISB, I get my experience in two ways
8 with the Federal Reserve. One, I used to work for the
9 Federal Reserve Bank of New York. It dealt with CRA.
10 So it ain't real. It's cosmetic. Let's be clear on
11 that. From an insider's point of view, this is Ragtime.
12 Secondly, the only way that you can get their
13 attention is if you take them on right between the eyes.
14 When we asked the Fed to look at Fleet Finance, which
15 was one of the most predatory lenders in the country,
16 the only way to get their attention was to blockade the
17 Fed, meet with the Board of Governors in the board room
18 and then make sure the switchboard couldn't operate,
19 because thousands of people called the switchboard at
20 one time and Alan Greenspan couldn't get an outside
21 line.
22 So let's be clear where the Fed stands.
23 Now, in terms of the NationsBank/Bank of
24 America merger, we are absolutely in support of it. We
25 are absolutely in support, because it's unprecedented,
26 when you have $350 billion.
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1 So what we've heard here this morning is,
2 well, is it real? Is it just a nice big number that is
3 too hard to requantify and does not -- whether it's
4 real.
5 So what we've asked is some of the thousands
6 of homeowners who have benefited from what NationsBank
7 has done to come here and talk about what's going to
8 happen, not just in Charlotte and Jacksonville and
9 Memphis and in Atlanta and Washington and Boston and
10 around the country, but what's going to happen on the
11 west coast as well.
12 So, with that, let me introduce Mayo
13 Thunderbird. Mayo, he is from Atlanta and he is a
14 person who has not only purchased a house but has
15 renovated. He can say it much better than I can.
16 MR. THUNDERBIRD: Good morning. You know,
17 I've sat in here this morning and listened to a lot of
18 people express a lot of different opinions. And, you
19 know, everybody has a right to an opinion, but I'm going
20 to let you draw your opinion from my experience.
21 See, seven years ago, I was that homeless
22 person on the street you might have passed on your way
23 here. I was that person sleeping in the stairwell of
24 the gutter and wherever I could find a place.
25 And then I decided to make a change in my
26 life. And, as a result of that, when I put my life back
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1 together, got married and had a small child, then I
2 approached other lending institutions about, well, now I
3 need a home to provide for my daughter.
4 The majority of them turned me away. Some of
5 them said, "We'll get back to you, you've got to do all
6 this." Well, they wanted all this money I didn't have.
7 So my wife and I heard about the NACA
8 program. We went to the NACA program. And, even though
9 I had a bad credit history, bad check history, because
10 the bad checks and things I did to support my addiction,
11 my wife had a bankruptcy due to some certain situations
12 that occurred in her life, they helped us work through
13 the application process to the point where, when we
14 presented it to NationsBank, it was fine.
15 And I have experience with the NationsBank
16 process that tells me that what they say they're going
17 to do, they're going to do. I went to a rally when NACA
18 came to Atlanta. There was thousands of people. I told
19 my wife there is no way we're going to get into this
20 process, there is just too many people. God willing, we
21 did.
22 I said, further on, there is no way we're
23 going to get through this process, all the bad checks I
24 wrote, your bankruptcy, but we did.
25 And then when we got to the part where you
26 presented the application to the bank, that's where the
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1 biggest surprise was. The people in the NationsBank
2 Mortgage Corporation office were more cooperative than I
3 could have ever imagined. They helped us through the
4 difficulties, they helped us bring down the roadblocks
5 that were in the way.
6 See, they didn't have to do that. We went to
7 them asking them for help. They turned around and they
8 helped us. So I say to you that's what you should be
9 paying attention to. What is the experience that people
10 have had that have gone through the process that
11 everybody is concerned might not be real? Well, it's
12 happened, I'm living proof of it today.
13 So maybe that's where you should be focusing
14 a little bit more of your attention, talk to the people
15 you are talking to, listen to people in positions of
16 authority in the charge of organizations that are
17 designed to help the people get below that to the people
18 that have benefited.
19 If they tell you it works, then I think your
20 responsibility is to see that they live up to their
21 word. They said they were going to do it in Atlanta,
22 they did.
23 Thank you.
24 MR. MARKS: What Mayo didn't -- there is a
25 lot to say, he purchased a house and he renovated it.
26 One of the important parts of what NationsBank does is
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1 you can purchase to stabilize your neighborhoods.
2 Let me introduce Jenny McNabb. Ms. McNabb
3 had 12, she'll tell you, she had a predatory loan and
4 it's a story that you've got to hear because she is just
5 one of thousands of people who are going to be able to
6 get out of a predatory loan into a mortgage that they
7 can afford.
8 MS. McNABB: My name is Jenny McNabb and I
9 live in Atlanta, Georgia. Several years ago I obtained
10 a mortgage from Ford Consumer Finance. This was a
11 15-year mortgage at 12.4 percent interest with a balloon
12 note at the end of 15 years of over $47,000.
13 I was told after a few months that this was
14 indeed a very bad loan and they would be willing to
15 refinance me at a cost of over $5,000.
16 When I retired a little over a year ago, it
17 became increasingly hard to make mortgage payments,
18 utilities and other household bills. I was at the point
19 of almost losing my home when I was introduced to NACA.
20 NACA not only refinanced my mortgage at 6.5
21 percent through NationsBank, but also paid off some of
22 my outstanding debts. The insurance and taxes are
23 included in my monthly payments, which was not the case
24 with Ford.
25 I feel that without the help that I received
26 from NACA and NationsBank, I would have lost my home.
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1 And I would recommend the refinancing at this time.
2 Thank you.
3 MR. MARKS: So you keep hearing about
4 NationsBank credit, but you don't know about the other
5 side. You don't hear Jenny McNabb. You don't hear
6 again about the thounsands of thousands of people that
7 will get out of the loans by Ford, which is the largest
8 predatory lender in the country.
9 Let me introduce a first-time home buyer, let
10 me see, Naomi Martin. She's not only a first-time home
11 buyer, but she knows about all the NACA deals in
12 Washington
13 MS. MARTIN: Good evening, everyone, my name
14 is Naomi K. Martin and I'm from Washington D.C. I'm a
15 first-time home buyer. Several years ago I decided that
16 I wanted to get a loan and I went to several other
17 institutions and I could not get it, not because I had
18 bad credit, because I had no credit. And all of you
19 know, having no credit, is worse than having bad credit.
20 So I went through the program, the NACA
21 program. The way I heard about it is because I dealt
22 with the NACA loans, and I've seen people go in there
23 and I've seen them get a rate at 6 percent, 7 percent
24 and I said to myself, no, no, this is not, this is not
25 true. But by me working in that program and working
26 with NationsBank, which NationsBank want you to have a
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1 home, I seen that this can be done.
2 I wanted to get a home where I had did my
3 roots, which is in Anacoco, and I got it there. I did
4 neighborhood community work there. I was an ASC
5 Commissioner, orange hat, and this is where I decided to
6 buy my home, and I went through this program and I went
7 with NationsBank, and I'm telling you today I am a
8 first-time home owner.
9 And I am truly proud to stand up here and say
10 that if you want to become a first-time home buyer, go
11 through the NACA NationsBank program and I'm telling
12 you, you will get your home. It all depends on you
13 yourself. If you want a home, NationsBank says, "We'll
14 supply you with a home."
15 Thank you.
16 MR. MARKS: Let me introduce the Hawkins, the
17 Freddie Hawkins, which are again one of thousands of
18 people who have benefited from what NationsBank has
19 done.
20 MS. HAWKINS: Our name is Freddie and
21 Caroline Hawkins. We are from Charlotte, North
22 Carolina, and we got a home from NACA/NationsBank. Our
23 stories are short. We are a one-job family. I work.
24 My husband is disabled, he cannot hold a job, not for an
25 hour.
26 And, when we decided to buy a home, we were
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1 introduced to this program by a friend who had went
2 through the program, but she was just too lazy to do
3 anything else. So, when we went in, we gave them
4 everything that we had. They helped us out. They are
5 not like other companies who says, "Get yourself
6 together then come back."
7 They're not like one company, we had a friend
8 worked for this loan company, he wanted to put us in a
9 certain neighborhood. You know, not where you want to
10 be, where they want you to be. When we heard about
11 NACA, we went through it and they put us in a nice home.
12 My husband was in the hospital when it was
13 time for us to have our meeting. So he told the doctor
14 he had to get out so we can go back and get our house.
15 We started April the 24th of last year and on
16 Labor Day weekend we moved into our home. And it's the
17 home that we dreamed about and that we wanted. I always
18 told people that I wanted a three-bedroom, two-bathroom,
19 double-car-garage house. I didn't get exactly that, but
20 I have enough land to put my double-car-garage on and my
21 other bathroom.
22 And we have been adding to our house, which
23 makes it so much better. We have been living not quite
24 a year. We added on to our house, we built our own
25 deck, our own back porch, we have a little garden in the
26 back. This all came possible through NACA.
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1 As I said, we couldn't get a loan anywhere
2 because we are a one-member working family, other
3 creditors looked at that as being disqualification,
4 because of just one person working.
5 I highly recommend NACA. As I was telling my
6 people when I was getting ready to go, I was talking to
7 them and they was, "Why are you going all the way to San
8 Francisco to talk to people about NACA? Talk to us." I
9 said, "As soon as I get back, I'll talk to you."
10 We are proud of NACA and what they have done
11 for us.
12 MR. HAWKINS: My wife has said everything
13 that needed to be said. I'd like to say thank God,
14 thank NACA and thank NationsBank because they gave us an
15 $80,000 loan and my loan papers are still in the hands
16 of some bank that's still saying, "We'll get in touch
17 with you." But we're staying in our home and thank you.
18 MS. SMITH: Is this the last one?
19 MR. MARKS: I am the last one.
20 MS. SMITH: You are the last one, maybe --
21 MR. MARKS: It will be short. Keep hearing
22 of all the criticism from Consumer Union, look at the
23 Consumer Reports, this one, the one institution they
24 recommended to go to to get out of predatory loans is
25 NACA, it's not NACA, it's NationsBank.
26 We didn't hear one example of someone that
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1 was denied credit by NationsBank or Bank of America
2 today. We heard from the executives, the staff people.
3 So the issue is whether this merger is going to benefit
4 the community or it's going to benefit the
5 organizations.
6 We're stating clearly it benefits the
7 community and that's what the CRA is all about and
8 that's why we're standing here to say it should go
9 through because thousands and tens of thousands of
10 people are going to benefit from what they're doing.
11 Thank you very much.
12 MS. SMITH: Why don't we start with you right
13 here. Name and organization, please.
14 MR. CARDONA: Yes, sir -- yes, ma'am. Good
15 afternoon. My name is Hugo Cardona. I'm the President
16 and Chief Executive Officer to SER, Jobs for Progress
17 National. We are a 501(C) organization.
18 We are the oldest and largest organization in
19 the country taking people from welfare to work. We were
20 founded in 1964, therefore, we have been 34 years
21 empowering people to leave the unemployment and welfare
22 grants and find the skills that will permit them to have
23 a productive life.
24 We have 38 affiliates in 18 states, District
25 of Columbia and Puerto Rico. We have more than 180
26 different programs in more than 91 cities. Our combined
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1 budgets are more than $62 million.
2 Directly and indirectly, we accept a year
3 more than 400,000 individuals, 65 percent of which are
4 Hispanic. Our motto is very simple, We change minds to
5 change lives. We empower the individual to acquire the
6 skills to be master's of their own destiny.
7 The problem that we are facing today is we
8 empowering the individuals, but we are sending them back
9 to the communities where they are failing in the first
10 place and this is where NationsBank come into play in
11 our organization.
12 Our funding comes from two sources. The
13 government who permit us to take care of the present
14 needs of the minorities, and corporate America that
15 permit us the working capital to create programs and
16 initiatives to address the future needs and the problems
17 that we are facing with our minorities in technology,
18 legislation and changes in immigration laws.
19 We have more than 150 corporate organizations
20 of the 500 Fortune supporting our efforts. We call them
21 the amigos de SER, and what they provide to us is
22 funding, places of employment for minorities and they
23 provide their own people to help in our organizations.
24 In specifically, NationsBank has been an
25 amigos de SER since 1991. In this seven years they have
26 contributed more than $350,000 to our organization. In
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1 1994 they provided $200,000 to start what we call the
2 housing program.
3 The housing program has permitted us to place
4 more than 270 individuals, like the ones that you saw
5 here this afternoon, in homes. These are first-time
6 home buyers, persons that have 80 percent or less of the
7 average income. This is our pilot program. It has
8 proven very successful.
9 Now, in partnership with NationsBank and
10 other financial institutions, we are moving forward. We
11 are creating now a house initiative that will permit us
12 to rehabilitate apartments, to build apartments, to
13 build homes where you will have 150 homes. They have
14 built in Texas, in Dallas at this moment, a secure place
15 with 150 homes. The vista is lemon scented and every
16 home has a computer. And you have the structures in
17 place, you have everything that you need. All of this
18 is financed through these financial institutions and
19 NationsBank.
20 So SER organization is very grateful to
21 NationsBank because it has permitted us to support and
22 sell to minorities. Thank you so much.
23 MR. WADDELL: Thank you very much. Good
24 afternoon. My name is Kermit Waddell. I am an attorney
25 in Charlotte, North Carolina. I am the President and
26 CEO of the Economic Center of the Carolinas.
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1 Today I am very happy to be here to support
2 the merger between the NationsBank and Bank of America.
3 My affiliation with NationsBank began in 1992
4 as a result of a partnership forged between the bank and
5 the National Association for the Advancement of Colored
6 People, the NAACP. This was but one of the partnerships
7 NationsBank entered into to help reach its goal of
8 loaning over $1 billion over a ten-year period of time
9 to low-to-moderate- income persons and small businesses.
10 The goal was actually achieved within three years.
11 Under the partnership, I headed up the North
12 Carolina NAACP Community Development Resource Center,
13 which Tammy Hawley talked about earlier, which opened in
14 Charlotte in 1992.
15 During the life of my existence with the
16 NAACP as State Vice President and Head Attorney, from
17 1992 until October, the NAACP facilitated over $115
18 million in loans. and I told Ms. Hawley about that
19 earlier, she had given you $80 million dollars, the
20 number is $115 million. I personally facilitated $65
21 million of that through North Carolina Center with no
22 defaults.
23 I left the NAACP in October of 1997 to
24 establish the Economic Development Center of the
25 Carolinas known at the EDCC, a nonprofit NationsBank
26 partner.
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1 Since October 1997, the EDCC has facilitated
2 over 7 and one-half million dollars. We currently have
3 over $28 million pending currently. We have over $15
4 million pending in NationsBank with over $8 million in
5 letters of commitment.
6 The purpose of the EDCC is a desire to
7 promote economic development through community
8 development lending in partnership with NationsBank to
9 community-based organizations and other institutions.
10 Our target populations and its major
11 beneficiaries of our efforts are those persons at
12 communities which traditionally have been underserved by
13 major lending institutions. We provide counseling,
14 advocacy, home ownership, first-time buying of home
15 programs and small business education classes.
16 We believe and still believe that our one
17 hundred percent lending record to this date is due to
18 the strong education program. We firmly believe that.
19 Class receive assistance in credit
20 counseling, budgeting, asset management, business plan
21 preparation, technical assistance. NationsBank provides
22 the curriculum and classroom material for the education
23 classes.
24 I think this is critically important because,
25 as an attorney for the NAACP for many, many years, I
26 took part in a great many partnerships and fair share of
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1 agreements. One was the Carolina Panthers when they
2 were getting ready to create the Panthers.
3 Because of problems with Dennys, we created a
4 $60 million fair-share agreement. The resource center
5 has facilitated over $20 million in loans through the
6 Carolina Panthers through African Americans who
7 participated in the building of the stadium as well as
8 eight to nine jumbo loans for the players that buy homes
9 within the 5- and $600,000 range.
10 However, we just as equally satisfied with
11 the 25- or $30,000 loan to someone in the Appalachian
12 region who never had running water, never had windows or
13 someone who lives along the coast of North Carolina and
14 South Carolina in poverty-stricken communities.
15 I also want to say that we have utilized the
16 bank. A great many of the programs that are in
17 partnership with these agencies and these banks, their
18 problems are they never take time to learn the bank. We
19 have utilized every sector of NationsBank. We have used
20 the SBIC for African American businessman that needed an
21 equity partner to grow and expand their business so that
22 he could participate in a military contract.
23 We have used the consortium for an African
24 American business family who has the contract with
25 Nissan to produce all of the chimes for the Nissan
26 automobiles. So I can tell you from firsthand
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1 experience that this program is not racial placation,
2 that the partnership with NationsBank works. I think
3 that people have to make it work, you have to stop
4 looking for a gift and for a handout and you have to put
5 yourself to work and the partnership works.
6 To conclude, I'd like to leave with you the
7 words of Frederick Douglas, which is the motto of my
8 office. "The history of civilization showed that no
9 people can or will rise to the degree of mental or even
10 moral excellence without wealth, a people uniformly poor
11 and compelled to struggle for barely physical
12 independence and be despised by their neighbors and will
13 finally despise themselves."
14 Thank you and God bless you.
15 MS. SMITH: Thank you very much.
16 MR. LUJAN: Thank you very much for allowing
17 me to speak on behalf of NationsBank and BankAmerica.
18 My name is Edward Lujan. I am from Albuquerque, New
19 Mexico and have been quite active in community affairs
20 for both Albuquerque and the state for number of years.
21 Presently I serve as the Chairman of the
22 Economic Development Commission for the State of New
23 Mexico and as chairman of the New Mexico Hispanic
24 Cultural Center Board.
25 I support the acquisition of BankAmerica by
26 NationsBank. The bank has been in existence for 70
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1 years, as the bank grew, it helped the city and the
2 state grow both with employee activities and its
3 resources.
4 I am delighted to say that NationsBank has
5 continued the tradition of what was originally
6 Albuquerque National Bank.
7 Time doesn't permit me to go over all of the
8 employees of NationsBank who are active in the
9 community, but two come to mind immediately. David
10 Baird is President of NationsBank New Mexico, belongs to
11 the Albuquerque Economic Forum, Albuquerque Economic
12 Development Board and Leadership New Mexico.
13 Alex Romero is Executive Vice President and
14 Consumer Banking Executive. Alex belongs to the
15 Hispanic Cultural Foundation and also presently serves
16 as Chairman of the Board of Albuquerque Hispano Chamber
17 of Congress.
18 When it comes to economic development,
19 NationsBank is right there helping with both their
20 employees and their resources.
21 I previously mentioned that I was chairman of
22 the board of the New Mexico Hispanic Cultural Center. A
23 few of us started with a dream of building a national
24 cultural center to share and preserve a unique culture
25 for a nation.
26 Our goal was to reach $45 million for this
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1 endeavor. We started working going to the state
2 legislature and securing 16 million in funding and
3 creating a division within the Office of Cultural
4 Affairs for the State of New Mexico. We went to the
5 City of Albuquerque and to Middle Rio Grande Conservancy
6 District. The city gave us 16 acres in downtown
7 Albuquerque, and the conservancy district gave us 14
8 acres of bosque or Riverside land bordering the land
9 from the city.
10 We went to our two United State Senators and
11 secured 18.9 million in federal funding for the
12 Performing Arts Theater. Having secured the cooperation
13 and funding for the city, the conservancy district, the
14 state and federal government, then we went to the
15 private sector for an additional $10 million that was
16 needed to complete the national center.
17 Without asking, NationsBank gave the center
18 the largest donation to get our private sector
19 fundraising campaign underway.
20 I have always worked with Bank of America and
21 have found them to be -- to also be good corporate
22 members of the community. Their history and their
23 commitment to both the cultural aspects and economic
24 vitality of our great state says to me that, as one
25 bank, they will continue to be involved. I wish to
26 wholeheartedly endorse the acquisition of BankAmerica
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1 Corporation by NationsBank Corporation.
2 Thank you.
3 MR. COOPER: Good afternoon. I am the
4 President and Chief Executive Officer of Choice
5 Communications, Inc., a commercial printing operation
6 located in Richmond, Virginia.
7 Since our inception in January 1993, we have
8 grown from a customer base of one with sales of less
9 than $2 million to a company that this year will exceed
10 $5 million in sales to over 100 clients. During this
11 period, we have increased our employee role from 16 to
12 more than 50. Because I am a Black American and control
13 85 percent of the company, we are one of the largest
14 minority-owned printing operations in the United States.
15 It is not my intention to offer these facts
16 as a testimonial to my achievements as a business
17 person, but, rather, I offer them as the positive effect
18 of a decision made six years ago by NationsBank
19 executives. It was their vision that led to the
20 creation of Choice Communications.
21 During the process of deciding to eliminate
22 company-owned operations that were not directly related
23 to the business of banking, NationsBank identified their
24 Richmond printing operation as a candidate for
25 extinction. However, instead of eliminating 16 jobs and
26 selling assets for pennies on the dollar, the decision
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1 was made to use the print shop closing to create an
2 opportunity for minority business development.
3 In announcing their intentions, NationsBank
4 promised help in securing financing and a one-year $2
5 million contract to provide printing services. It was
6 my good fortune to be the candidate chosen to purchase
7 the print shop.
8 Since that time, I have benefited from this
9 decision and Choice has remained a primary supply
10 partner to NationsBank. In fact, we have recently
11 signed a contract that will keep us in this position
12 through the year 2000.
13 During the current five-year period, annual
14 sales to NationsBank have grown annually and average
15 more than $2.3 million.
16 Finally, I would like to mention that for the
17 past two years the National Minority Supply and
18 Development Council selected NationsBank as its
19 corporation of the year. This award was given to
20 NationsBank by minority business enterprise
21 representatives from across the United States. Receipt
22 of the award is testimonial of a corporation's effort to
23 create change. To receive the award in consecutive
24 years is an overwhelming acknowledgement of
25 NationsBank's leadership in and commitment to the
26 communities that it serves.
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1 I challenge the people of color on the west
2 coast to learn a little bit more about the NationsBank.
3 And I thank you again for the opportunity to testify in
4 support of the merger.
5 MS. SMITH: Thank you very much. I don't
6 think we have any questions, right? We will take a
7 ten-minute break, that will be our lunch break, and then
8 we will start at 12:55 with the next panel.
9 (Recess taken.)
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